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For those of you following the Free discussion, I encountered an interesting happening today. Jenny (of Craft Test Dummies fame) ran across a post on the Creative Paperclay blog, asking for applications for its design team. The position involves a fair amount of ongoing work, both in designing projects and promoting them online. And the compensation? Free product and your picture on their blog.
Jenny, being an advocate of fair pay for designers, commented on this post, expressing in no uncertain terms her view that asking designers to work for free like this isn’t respectful of their time or talent. Throughout the day, then, there was a flurry of pretty intense debate – both on the Creative Paperclay blog and on the Craft Test Dummies Facebook page.
By mid-afternoon, Creative Paperclay had deleted all but one of the comments from its blog, which is certainly their prerogative, but unfortunate in that it squashed a productive discussion. As it happened, I had a copy of the original page open in my browser, so I saved the original comments. I think they’re a good introduction to the ensuing debate, so I’ve decided to share them. if you like you can click here to download a PDF.
Image by Luz, via Flickr
For the record, I think Jenny is right – when a for-profit company hires designers to make designs from its product, that company is hiring a professional service and should be paying something for it. As Jenny stated in her now-deleted comment, the standard rate for CHA-registered designers is $50.00 per month. (Edit: Actually, this number is a starting point, and not a standard.) Which is awfully little, but is better than nothing. I don’t think Creative Paperclay had any nefarious intent in setting up an unpaid design team. Unfortunately, unpaid design teams have become more the norm than the exception, precisely because there are so many crafters who’ll work for free.
That said, there are plenty of people who have been vemently defending their right to work for free today. This debate is one of the many sticky conversations we’re thrown into by this crazy combination of internet and bad economy.
Personally, I think our community needs to get over devaluing itself once and for all. We can absolutely create a landscape in which both fair compensation and community sharing co-exist, but that will not happen until each of us steps up and says, “my time and talents are worth compensation in for-profit environments.” Until we make that declaration, nothing substantive changes in how craft companies see us.
Image by Yandle, via Flickr
I think we also need to stop imbuing craft companies with magical powers in regards to our careers. We’re in a tough economy. Many, many companies are struggling, and I’d hazard a guess, especially in the crafts industry. I don’t think, however, that financial struggle is a good excuse for paying designers nothing – or, paying in product only.
When I started blogging, and corporate publicists started approaching me to write about their products, I made the mistake I think a lot of us make: I assumed that if I gave the publicist free work, that would later tranlsate into the company wanting to pay me for my services, and that would lead to eventual fame and fortune. Maybe would-be designers work for free on design teams for the same reason?
Image by tiaragwin, via Flickr
I completely agree that people who aspire to be designers need some way to break into the industry. Unfortunately, many seem to believe this is done mainly through working for companies for free. But it doesn’t have to be. If you’re a good designer and you want visibility, share your design work on your own blog, and do the necessary online social participation to get that blog seen. (If you aren’t sure what this looks like, watch this and this.)
If you can demonstrate that you have design skills and a following, then over time companies will come looking for you – and in that case, you’ll be in a much better position to get paid.
Besides, you have to consider the shrinking number of marketing channels available to craft supply companies. Craft magazines aren’t as plentiful as they used to be. Neither are craft TV shows. Marketing is increasingly happening online, and increasingly through word-of-mouth. So craft companies need bloggers and tweeters and Facebook users to help spread their word. We absolutely can hold the power in this equation, if we’ll only step up and claim it.
Image by B_Zedan, via Flickr
I think that when you look at the arguments on Jenny’s Facebook page, what you see is a classic “Pro-Am” debate. The people defending unpaid design teams seem by and large happy to trade design for product because they currently make their living in other ways. The people who are upset about unpaid design teams are by and large those who are trying to make a living in an already-challenging field.
There are no easy solutions here – we do not live in an easy-solution era. And since this is an issue involving money and livelihood, emotions will run high. But at the end of the day, how seriously do we want to be taken as creators? I applaud Jenny for being willing to speak out on behalf of designers, and I think more of us need to be willing to get involved in this discussion.
Update as of September 16, 2011: Creative Paperclay has decided to re-evaluate its approach to design teams in the wake of all this conversation. My hat is off to them for being willing to listen, and to all of you for the very civil and productive conversation we’ve had here.
I’ll go and finish reading as soon as I finish posting this comment. I just had to take a moment to catch my breath. I literally could not breath (and still have that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach) when I read “the standard rate for CHA-registered designers is $50.00 per month.” A MONTH?!?1 I was expecting the word ‘hour’, which is certainly reasonable. And if the designer only works an hour a month for a company, yeah, I guess that makes sense. But really. Really? I mean, REALLY?
I completely hear you, Teresa, and I should say: this is not a rate I could afford to work for. But it’s still a starting point in an industry that’s making incorrect assumptions about the value of design work. I’d hope to see incremental improvement once we actually reached a place where it was the norm for design teams to be paid.
Hi! I am a CHA registered designer. I have no idea where the $50 per month rate came from. There is no pay schedule on file anywhere on the CHA site. The CHA Designer are an organized, active group. We have a council and I personally have seen a lot of growth in the professional side of this industry as a designer. I can assure you, that I have never even completed a single project for less than $50 a month! My rates vary depending on the project and specific requirements of my clients.
I think it is astounding that Creative Paperclay removed all of the comments today. Think about other ways they could have responded besides erasing the discussion, and what that might have done for their reputation as a company. They could have stepped up to the plate abd engaged us by saying they would put some thought into the ideas being discussed, and they would have really come out ahead. I see this as a huge missed opportunity for them.
Agreed, Abby, unfortunately, it was a misstep on their part. It doesn’t feel like they did it with intent to pull any wool over our eyes. It feels more to me like they saw a situation getting far, far away from their original intention and chose an ill-advised way to stop it. Clearly, they don’t seem to have appreciated that on the web, when you squelch a discussion in one place, it simply pops up in others. I do hope, at the very least, that these events have made them re-think their policy on design teams.
(And, just a public note: if anyone from Creative Paperclay would like to join the discussion here, you’d be most welcome and treated with respect – I promise.)
I decided to send Creative Paperclay a respectful email asking for their engagement in this discussion. I don’t know if they’ll agree to comment, but it certainly doesn’t hurt to ask. I hope they do!
Wow, thank you so much for doing that, Abby! I would love to hear from a representative here.
I saw the beginning of this discussion over on the Craft Test Dummies page this morning, and will comment there in a little bit… On the one hand, I feel for PaperClay, who stumbled into this debate. They are not the first to have an unpaid design team. Also, the debate is happening on the weekend when many of their decision makers are probably unavailable to make changes.
That being said, their request is a little extreme. Not only are they asking for a lot of work for no pay, but any blogger who applies must put a full tutorial on their own blog with the PaperClay logo. So, the more applicants, the better the free marketing reach for the company. It seems like really smart marketing… until something like this happens, and they get bitten in the butt.
Hopefully other companies will take notice and say, “I don’t want to be the next ‘PaperClay’.”
I agree with you, Carolina – although I strongly disagree with how they positioned their design team call, I don’t think Creative Paperclay had nefarious intentions. You’re right; they are not the first to build an unpaid design team. You know, what, though? I would love to see more of us commenting on these public calls for unpaid work. It’s a simple and powerful way to begin changing attitudes about the value of design services.
I was shocked at the amount of effort this company wanted the aspiring designers to agree to for free. Also it seems they wanted to see free promotion on blogs even before they made their selection of the “winner”.
I left a post saying as much on their blog, it was removed…
*sigh*
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head when you concluded this:
“The people defending unpaid design teams seem by and large happy to trade design for product because they currently make their living in other ways. The people who are upset about unpaid design teams are by and large those who are trying to make a living in an already-challenging field.”
I’ve seen that happen in a different field (technology and games) in my city, where students accept very low-paying jobs/internships because of their “love for the industry”. That brings down the wages for everyone else (including people with many years of experience), and in the long run no experienced IT/games professional stays in the local market.
When people are outside the industry and take these high-workload low-wage jobs to “get into the industry”, all it does is hurt EVERYONE in the long run.
You’ve hit on a really tricky bit of this whole discussion, Cami. I wrote more about this idea originally, but ultimately edited it out. The thing is, we do need ways for people to break into industries. Back before the internet, unpaid and low-paid internships seemed to play a strong role here. My first job in graphic design, one million years ago, was an unpaid internship. There was no other way at that time to gain real-world design experience or be seen in the professional marketplace.
I do believe that the web gives newcomers way more paths for achieving these two goals. But I’d also love to see a business landscape in the crafts industry where payment for services is the norm, and there’s still room for a few unpaid/low-paid “break-in” positions. I’d really like to think this is possible.
That’s very true, and maybe I sounded a bit harsh. Let me try to explain where I’m coming from with my example. :)
Here in Brazil, many college students work in part-time internships, where they are supposed to be mentored in their craft by supervisors… but what ends up happening is companies get these very cheap interns to do a lot of unmentored, unsupervised heavy work. So a system that in theory would be great for people to learn and break in ends up being exploited.
You are absolutely correct that there needs to be an entry point for new designers. I’m just not 100% sure that working for free (well, in exchange for products) is the best way… all that time could be put into great pieces for a cohesive and interesting portfolio, for example.
But some people obviously want to do these unpaid jobs, and if they’re ok with it, I guess it’s fine. :)
We’re in total agreement that working for free is not the only (not the best) way to break into an industry. It’s just currently the most recognized. And you’re right that anyone who wants to be a designer can formulate a stunning online portfolio without doing a lick of free work.
Hi Cami – I understand your frustration but surely that is a perfect market (in a true sense of the word).
The value of any persons job is determined by what an employer is willing to pay – not by the employee themselves.
The people at the bottom breaking into the industry are merely demonstrating that there are talented people who will work for less and this effectively sets the “going rate”.
Peoples “experience” is valued similarly – and if employers can get the same results paying less to the younger/less experienced workers/designers – than that’s just the way the market is. Ultimately you can’t manipulate that.
All that long-windedness is my way of saying that if manufacturers can get people to work for product only – they will.
If they believe they can only get the quality they require by paying for it – they will – but that does not seem to be the case in the crafting world given how many people are apparently happy to work for product compensation only.
I think every single point I have read on this discussion is valid, but there seem to be a few people who want to value their own work and that is just not realistic in such a competitive market.
I don’t believe in a “call to arms” for crafters suddenly demanding to be paid. If you don’t like doing unpaid work – don’t do it. There are plenty of designers willing to do it for free – not because they are “devaluing” themselves, but simply for the love of the craft.
Who are we to tell them they are wrong?
Regards, Lowri.
Chiming in here… you are absolutely right that the industry will take the path of least cost and most gain, Lowri. That’s generally a sound business practice. But what is wrong with professional crafters pointing out the disparity between expectations and compensation? I’ve written elsewhere in this discussion about the possibilities for designing better exchanges with both hobbyists and professionals.
Here’s the thing: I spent weeks writing generally-scoped articles here about the problems of working for free. And while those articles sparked good debate and thought, because they were general in nature, they didn’t spark any concrete action that I can point to. I think that publicly pointing out when a craft company is behaving exploitatively is a needed form of activism, because this specificity breeds repeated engagement in the discussion. Yes, it also creates some discomfort for the company involved, and I agree that not every company has nefarious intent. But the bottom line is, we need an industry that treats design and social marketing services as valuable. And to my mind, the most effective way to get us there is to make the problem more visible.
Unpaid design team work seems to be the rule rather than the exception in the scrapbook industry and I’ve personally always thought it was completely nuts. I understand how it can be appealing and flattering to get materials for free but the time commitments for these positions are sizable. The talented people who work for these companies are *absolutely* generating income for the companies but not for themselves.
Does this practice cross over into other craft fields as well? I find that for profit blogs in other areas (parenting, cooking, etc.) also expect writers to work for free and I’ve been on the receiving end of many “opportunities” to write for free in exchange for “a link back to your blog.” It’s maddening.
So have I, Wendy! It’s amazing to me how often “exposure” is offered up as compensation – and, how often I discover, after a bit of research, there really isn’t all that much exposure potential in the offer after all.
I’ll go ahead and pop this link in here, in case anyone’s wondering how to evaluate the exposure potential of an “opportunity:” http://www.craftypod.com/2010/02/23/video-how-to-evaluate-an-opportunity-when-you-arent-getting-paid/
The days of stay at home mom’s crafting with their children is becoming passe – so many have become professional “crafter’s” if you want to use that term, but I would rather use the term “designer’s”. Jenny is a designer – just like thousands of other women (and men) in her league. She doesn’t sit and cut out paper snowflakes – she design’s fabulous pieces of art – her head is constantly spinning with ideas – How do I know this? All you have to do is follow her blog, twitter and/or facebook pages. Jenny shoots from the hip – that is what I like about her. There is no bs in what she says or what she does. She knows what she wants and is becoming top in her field. And it is not by sitting around pontificating on the right’s or wrong’s in this industry. I can guarantee you that since this “discussion” started, she has spent time with her family, cooked their dinner, helped her children with their homework, taken the dog for a walk, all with “ideas” floating around in her head…..and is now at her work table making them a reality.
Bottom line? Stick to what you do best and if your talents are being taken advantage of, move on.
Hi Diane – I have been following the debate on the FB page with interest and I think you have a much more balanced perspective here than Jenny does. She seems to be on some kind of crusade – the cause is admirable but her communication skills are somewhat lacking and she has been blatantly rude to many.
I just wanted to comment on one point you raised in your piece above.
“The people who are upset about unpaid design teams are by and large those who are trying to make a living in an already-challenging field”
The majority of people craft as a hobby – a few probably make a living if they are exceptionally good at either the said craft or self-marketing. Many crafters get thousands of dollars worth of product as compensation and if you want to earn a living out of crafting you cannot expect to suddenly ask everyone to want the rules changed so that YOU can make a living from what everyone else enjoys as a hobby. (I don’t mean YOU personally!)
What has got a lot of people riled I think is that they are being told they are devaluing themselves (and others) by not asking for CASH compensation. It would appear that the majority of crafters are very happy with the status quo and the way they are compensated. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be doing it!
Thanks for continuing this interesting debate
Regards, Lowri
Thanks for commenting, Lowri. These discussions are always challenging, because it’s hard not to generalize from our own points of view, especially when they are dearly-held. I respect Jenny’s passion around this subject. She manages design teams and insists that her designers be paid for their work. She’s taken a courageous stance in speaking out publicly about this issue, and it’s unfortunate that she’s taken so much heat for it today. I’m glad we have such an ombudsperson in our community.
As a CHA Design Member, I have never seen a standard rate for CHA Design Members. In fact, we are discourage from talking to each other about our fees. Each Designer sets their own company’s service fees and Design Members never discuss with each other what we charge for services. So anyone stating that there is a set fee for CHA Designers is misinformed. As a professional and someone who produces quality work, I expect to be paid — and am paid — a professional fee. My clients appreciate the quality work they receive and agree to my fees. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for commenting, Carol. Maybe Jenny can chime in with the information she’s working from regarding that fee.
Just a follow-up: Jenny commented on the origin of that number on her Facebook page:
“…The number came up from some crowdsourcing I did w/ some designers- it’s an unofficial number. Certainly NOT an industry standard….but a starting place…”
I am also a CHA designer member. I agree with Carol. All designers are paid based on their own fee and negotiation with the client. Clients may have a set fee that they pay for a particular project and its up to the designer to accept it or not.
As Carol said, designers are not allowed to publically talk about fees on the CHA discussion list and to set fees as a group. This comes from an anti-trust law that prohibits it so it boils down to a legal issue. It was also this way with the prior Society of Craft Designers that merged with CHA.
Like Carol, I am a professional. Designing is my business that I have been working at for 26 years.
Not discussing fees seems like something that benefits the companies, but not the designers.
As an add-on – I can see why Creative Paperclay deleted those comments. They were not really part of a constructive debate – just a few people getting quite nasty in an “I am Right – You are Wrong” kind of way!
The main thought I was left with after reading them is that if you need to get paid for Design Team work in order to pay the bills – maybe you should be looking for a proper job!
I do not mean to devalue anybody’s work by that comment – but we would surely all like to make a living doing our hobby – but most of us realize that is just not possible.
I don’t know that I agree about ‘most of us’ realizing that making a living on your hobby isn’t possible. I’d definitely agree that making a living from a hobby requires a great deal of work, perseverance, and the ability to recast that hobby so it also behaves like a marketable business. Being a designer is just one possibility among many for making a creative living, and I like to believe that the world is generally full of possibility. I’ve also heard similar complaints about the expectation of free work from people in the graphic design and web design industries, so I think this devaluing vibe is pretty prevalent.
I think you’re right that Creative Paperclay didn’t delete the comments out of any negative intent. Of course they must have been surprised by the response and worried that the comments would turn people away from their offer. What’s unfortunate, though, is that this kind of response isn’t really in line with the visibility of the internet age. They’ve inadvertently made themselves look bad, and that’s unfortunate. I thought the comments constituted the start of a productive online discussion.
My reply was not nasty, yet it was deleted.
Speaking of rude, I believe you’re the pot calling the kettle black here: “her communication skills are somewhat lacking and she has been blatantly rude to many”. Her communication skills are excellent and I have yet to see Jenny be rude to anyone.
I take issue with “bloggers” that consistently use poor grammar, punctuation and misspellings. Those are blogs that should never be comped in any way.
Susie, it’s completely natural that this discussion have emotional overtones, but what I’d really appreciate here is that we keep this discussion as civil as possible. I think we can get more productive around the issues if we refrain from personal attacks. Jenny had to spend a lot of energy yesterday defending against what I thought were unnecessarily harsh accusations, and that’s really unfortunate when she took such a courageous stance for the community’s sake. It sounds like you support Jenny too, so perhaps you’ll agree?
Yes, I do, and I apologize that I wasn’t.
No worries, Susie. Thank you for caring about the conversation and being part of it!
Pardon my ignorance, but what is CHA?
Also, fun fact: I read somewhere that craft companies weather recessions better than most, as people seek out inexpensive hobbies and get in touch with their “DIY-power”, “nesting” side :-) I don’t know the stats though.
Hi, Alex – CHA is the Craft and Hobby Association. And I’ve heard the same statistic you cited, but don’t have any data on it. But I do know that in this “indie” community at least, there’s a lot of emphasis on upcycling and re-use instead of always buying new materials, and I believe that’s having an impact on the industry to an extent.
SO well put Diane – amazingly put. After having worked in the craft industry for years, you are so right. We will not get more until we ask for more. Designers in other industries would laugh at the prospect of being asked to do free work, even in exchange for “product.” I think the first signal that a design call is not worth answering is when the “what you get” is several bullet points shorter than the “what’s expected.”
What made me very sad is that someone said in the PDF comments that they made $1,000 in product over a year’s time. If you average that out to a 40 hour work week, that is $.48 per hour. Even at 1/2 time it’s only $.96 per hour. Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour.
Ouch! That’s sobering math, isn’t it? Definitely, there’s a disparity in the way these two camps value free product. I don’t want to disparage anyone for being excited about freebies. It really is the fact that this payment-in-product is happening in a for-profit environment, in exchange for services related directly to product marketing. You are absolutely right: not many other industries would be so quick to give that away.
Design work using your company’s products is ADVERTISING. You’d never call an advertising company and say, “hey, if you’ll make us some ads, we’ll give you some of our paper. Let’s trade!” This isn’t Little House on the Prairie where you trade crops or services. But you know, as long as there are people out there willing to work for peanuts, they’ll keep giving them peanuts.
I did it when I first started out, but never again. I don’t even do design team work anymore. My time is worth more than a package of embellishments.
Good for you, Jennifer! Your example is an inspiration for aspiring designers.
Here’s my 2 cents that I shared on FB: The thing that blows my mind is that we don’t expect doctors, lawyers, nurses, the pest control dude or babysitters etc etc to work for free. So, why should creative women? We spend our time working with product, taking photos, editing photos, uploading photos, writing, promoting etc. We are valuable otherwise companies wouldn’t want to work with us. In being valuable to them, we have to watch out for ourselves because there’s always someone waiting to take advantage.
Amen! I think professional services are professional services. And definitely, building a good project tutorial is a whole lot of work!
I admit I’m a bit on the fence with this. From what I’ve observed in the scrapbooking design teams, these are mainly (though not all) stay-at-home moms with a love for scrapbooking and specific companies’ products. The offer of a design team position allows them to continue their hobby (at no real extra time) while also receiving free product, thus saving themselves money. I can see how it is appealing (and how it is not perceived as being taken advantage of).
Yet… I’m also someone who refuses to wear clothing with logos. Because I can’t stand the idea of paying to be part of a company’s marketing! Haha. I guess what makes the design team thing seem different is that it is so closely connected to “hobby” not professional design. I would assume someone looking to make a career move in design would pursue different opportunities.
I’m glad to see this theme emerging in this discussion, LeeAnne. I don’t want hobbyists to be shut out from free-product opportunities. Take a look at Sugru (http://sugru.com), which is a company I think is handling the “design team” concept very well. The makers of Sugru (an air-drying silicone clay) needed to amass a lot of examples of how their product might be used. So, they have actively sought out bloggers, offered them a free sample pack of the clay, and invited them to share what they did with it on their own blogs. The blogger can also email their project to Sugru if they like to have it included in an online gallery.
…So it’s an exchange of free work for free product. But here’s the thing: it’s a one-time relationship. Sugru is not asking for ongoing work OR ongoing blog/social media support. It’s the ongoing and marketing nature of the design team position that gives me pause. When a company asks you to market them, they are asking for professional services they should be paying for. But as a supplement to a paid design team, any company could absolutely reach out into the blogosphere for one-time exchanges of product-for-project.
LeeAnne, being a SAHM and once on a DT, I must tell you your comment .. “The offer of a design team position allows them to continue their hobby (at no real extra time) while also receiving free product, thus saving themselves money. I can see how it is appealing (and how it is not perceived as being taken advantage of).”is actually incorrect.
Being on a DT is much more work and time involved than what it appears and I did not realize that until I got neck deep in it. Basically the requirements are outrageous in comparison with the compensation (if there is any). I had to promise to devote 3+ hours EACH DAY to being a presence online…which included following blogs, posting on a minimum of 6 forums, producing comments to the parent company’s forum as well, and being present in the evenings in various chat rooms to answer questions and ‘chat up’ the product I was using. ALSO, I was to produce 3 unique pieces a week in addition to making 2 separate creations that followed this companies ‘challenges’, as well as make 3 separate creations in 3 other ‘challenge’ pages this company helps to promote. Some of my things had to have a certain percentage of certain product, which I cannot choose but was chosen for me to use. Hence, having all boys, for 3 months in a row I got product that was all pink, purple, fairies, and flowers and the dozen or so things I was to make for that month had to use this product and this color scheme.
My point is that being a DT member is a LOT of work… it basically is a 30/hour a week job. I did not do things I would normally do anyway, my own personal projects and scrapbooking was put in a closet for the 8 months I had this contract, I didn’t send out Christmas cards that year and my family suffered.
Many of my DT colleagues that have become close friends, whom are very successful and are fortunate enough to be in magazines, employ outside household help now. Yes, it comes out of any compensation they might derive or their S/O’s paychecks.
The product compensation was over $500/retail, which was the equivalent of $100/wholesale, hence I basically made less than someone in a 3rd world country sewing a sheet set for a department store.
Ack!!
I gotta say, I find this horrifying. And a reason never to visit scrapbook forums.
What a great discussion that was started! It brings up so many great ideas and thoughts… and reminds us that *we* hold the power to change things.
I totally respect wanting compensation beyond product. Being a registered CHA designer for years (even spending time at companies CHA booths) I realize the importance of valuing yourself…. I never asked for compensation… so I never got it.
Now that I started my own company (a stamp line) I can see the other side… (as a brand new *small* business) … I simply couldn’t afford to pay my designers… even $50 a month… I mean I could … but, I’d have ONE designer :) I now understand compensation to mean something so much more than $$$ and that I have A LOT to offer besides product…. (disclaimer: this might start sounding corny) I offer real and true friendship, support, and cheerleading… my designers and I have become something like family.
Beyond that, I offer sales incentives and class promotions…They’ll end up getting close to 25 sets of stamps for a 6 month period. I also take on a lot of the responsibilities… meaning,I do all the blogging and marketing. So, all I really ask them to do (or incentivize them to do) is when they sit to make cards, to use my product….take a picture and send it my way.
Obviously, when things take off (and they will! Positive thinking!) I plan to compensate with money… but, for now I am beyond grateful and thankful that some (amazing!) designers took a leap with me not expecting a monthly check. I believe in karma, fate, whatever you like to call it…. and whenever and however I can repay their kindness, I will.
So, I understand wanting monthly checks (or some sort of money compensation for work completed) from well established medium to large sized companies.
But, maybe if I could throw out the thought…
Behind a small start up business is a designer, just like you, who took a leap of faith and needs smart and talented creative geniuses to help get her business off the ground… and unfortunately, just for now… can’t pay with checks. Give her a chance, get to know her… after all….one day, it just might be *you*.
Big Hugs!
Nicole
Now’s the time I shamelessly plug my new business and all the amazing ladies who work so hard for me for so little….
http://www.sweetstampshop.blogspot.com (blog)
http://www.sweetstampshop.com (website)
Thanks so much for joining this discussion, Nicole – I was hoping to hear from someone who’s on the other side of the design-team fence!
Your situation seems fairly akin to Jenny’s, actually – on Craft Test Dummies, she provides reviews of craft tools and products as a free service. She gets free product in exchange for these reviews. She also has a few contributors who do reviews for her in exchange for free product. Jenny has been very transparent about this on Facebook. Currently, CTD isn’t bringing in enough money in ad revenues to pay her contributing writers, so in addition to giving them the product they’re reviewing for free, she also sends them additional products that they aren’t under obligation to review. And yes – she has full intention that once the blog’s ad revenue reaches a certain target point per month, the will pay these contributors money.
I have nothing in the world against fledgling businesses – I love them! And I applaud you for designing your design team so that the exchange of value is reasonable. I think it’s great that you’re taking responsibility for your own online presence and marketing, and making the trade be one of product for creative time. That’s a great deal more fair.
The thing is, we can’t have a landscape where everyone has to work for money any more than we can have a landscape where everyone has to work for free. All I’m looking for is to encourage payment for professional services as the norm – especially when companies are large enough to afford it. As you’ve ably demonstrated, there are ways for small companies to formulate a design team without exploiting people. I do think that Creative Paperclay (perhaps without intending to) is asking for way more than they’re giving in return.
Once again, I think I love you.
The thing is… sometimes I wonder why it is, or if it is, that people basically don’t believe that people who enjoy their jobs, or have “fun” sounding jobs, should also get to make enough money to live. As in, some people don’t think it it is a “real job”. Why the hell not? People make movies and get paid, people design fashion and get paid, etc. What’s more (and on a tangent) it takes skills beyond design skills to make work that gets noticed and results in sales for the company. There is much more to it than gluing a piece of paper to another piece of paper. (And, why do the photographers who shoot designs get paid? But the designers get paid so little? Why is that work not valued, when they are both creative pursuits?)
When I decided to branch out and do this on my own (rather than working for a company) I realized I was competing with people who did not care or keep track of whether they even got paid. And I thought, how will this ever work? I’m constantly having to turn down “offers” to work “For free” and “for exposure”. They tell me it’s just a simple project and will only take me a few minutes–well, I’ve been working in the industry for years and even if it does only take me a few minutes, it’s because I’ve worked hard to develop that expertise. It is not free, I have to be able to pay my bills so I can have the head space to think creatively! Sigh.
Oh, I hear that! I’ve been in that space many, many times.
You know what else I think is interesting? The assumption that the work is “fun.” Designing professionally is definitely more engaging than pretty much any other job I’ve ever had, but it’s a way different experience than designing for personal enjoyment. When I design professionally, there are constraints and high stakes and time limitations… it’s an act of work, and it requires the same deep thinking, testing, progressive iteration, and detail polish I’d apply to acts of work in other domains. And you’re right – the years we spend in the industry give us a certain edge that must be compensated.
Such a good point. Just today I got about 20 skeins of yarn that are waiting to become 7 projects and let me tell you, it doesn’t sound like fun to me. Yes, I liked coming up with the ideas and of course I enjoy crocheting, but I can’t just enjoy the qualities of the fiber or add a stitch here and there on a whim, I have to make sure I can produce patterns that can be sized and edited and understood. There’s a precarious balance I try to achieve between something creative and wearable and also explainable and not over-complicated. Despite this I retain a passion for my job, but sometimes I think it would be “fun” to check in at 9 and out at 5, have paid health insurance and days off, and not be expected to spend hours of my day helping people wit a pattern I offered for free. :)
I so agree with you, Linda, it seems like craft designing is viewed as so fun or so rewarding in itself that the compensation is partially just the great experience of spending the day concepting and sewing (or crocheting, making jewelry, etc.). Where I’ve really had to draw the line on the never-ending stream of “exposure” projects is now that I have two young children who need paid care while I work. Doing a project for free while I pay someone I trust (who has CPR training and experience) a fair wage to watch my kids is literally losing money while I work. I will always do book reviews and contribute projects for people who I really respect and admire, when it’s an honor to make or write something that I’ll be happy to see out in the world, regardless of payment. But I’ve had to really start saying no more often and it’s been a good (hard) lesson learned.
Thanks for the post, this is a fascinating topic with a lot of angles.
For sure, Susan. I’ve started saying no a lot more and it’s empowering. Sometimes I even say no thank you to paying work (or I say, “I’d love to, but do you have a project like this instead?”) because even when getting paid, it’s easier to make work I’m excited about. And that’s the part of my job I like most, that I get to make those decisions and can say no if I want to. :)
Hey, Sister Diane–
Thanks so much for this incredibly interesting post! It reminds me so very much of the Theatre industry debate where people work massive amounts of hours for incredibly low stipends, many times simply because they love to do what they do, and can’t not do it. Theatre, in general, has a horrible pay rate for participants who have worked for years and years honing their craft, whether it’s acting, props, or costuming.
There is statistical evidence that the majority of salary growth in theatre for the last ten years has only been in arts administration (go figure). And that’s a reflection of our culture. As a business-oriented ethic has grown more and more dominant, creativity is more and more commoditized. It’s no secret that most arts organizations are “non-profits” (a term many in theatre have debated–why are we the “non-profits” when banks or insurance companies could just as easily be categorized “non-socials”? Why do we measure the value and impact of an arts organization on a community in monetary terms? ), and that somehow the left brain/right brain evidence has removed any capacity of creatives to be responsible with finances…
The Paperclay posting (and others, like the ones on Craigslist requiring “mastery” of x-number of design programs for minimum wage jobs, for example) are a reflection of a larger cultural issue that stems from people in charge who don’t really know what they’re asking for as they haven’t really been in those positions… They haven’t needed to because corporate structure hasn’t required those skills. Often, the administration is a distinct and separate entity from creative departments.
I hope, in the future, we’ll see more artistic types in positions of authority so less mistakes like Paperclay’s will be made. Because our economy is demonstrating the danger of non-creative thinkers in the business world. It’s just going to take time for that cultural shift to happen. We, as artists, are going to have to demonstrate the difference between the quality of free art and remunerated art. Until we, as artists, can articulate and demonstrate the benefits of art that’s consciously paid for and not just free, we won’t be winning that battle. We have to recognize quality so those with the money can do likewise, and pay for it over something they can get for free.
Those who don’t know enough won’t last long, as those whom they need to know won’t care to know them…
My 2¢. : ) Great post! Welcome back!!!
…As we say on Twitter, THIS! Thank you so much, Corey, for this articulate comment, and for sharing a glimpse of the theater world.
And PS–Tell Kelly McCants hello for me! We went to undergrad theatre together! She’s a great person! I’m so glad you’re covering her book! ; )
This is such an interesting debate. As an ex. professional actress I can also tell you working for free is rife in that area of work too. I am not sure there is a fix for it either – there is always a young newbie following you willing to do the work for nothing to kick start their career. Sadly, it seems to be the way of many creative jobs, where the service is more difficult to quantify than other professions. Trying to quantify in financial terms card design is just harder.
That said, it SHOULD be paid work, I agree that as a designer you should be able to spend your wage- whether you need it to pay your gas bill of feed your stash.
I take issue with Lowri’s comment though, (sorry Lowri)
‘The main thought I was left with after reading them is that if you need to get paid for Design Team work in order to pay the bills – maybe you should be looking for a proper job!’
Some crafters make this their ‘proper job’, and it is no less hard work or proper than other professions. I do this as my full time career; I do 8-10 hours 6 days a week, I blog, I design and manage my website and other online outlets. I organise card parties and events, I sell my cards at various places and I work hard. Harder in fact than when I had a ‘proper’ job. But I would still need paying for my design work. You wouldn’t pay an ambulance paramedic for all work undertaken in the ambulance, but not pay for work done in a patients house. It is the same with professional crafts people. It is a little unfair to say that if you need paying for your work you need a proper job.
(No offense intended Lowri: just my opinion)
Shelly
Hi Diane – thanks for your continued thoughtful commentary on this topic.
I really don’t understand the complaining about not being compensated fairly – it makes me want to say “Why did you do it without securing compensation you were satisfied with before you began?!?!?!”
Part of the problem is the line between job (as in puts the food on the table) and hobby (something you do for fun) is obviously blurred for some people. I totally agree that if you work directly for a profit-making company you should be compensated (I personally do not have a problem with that compensation being in product)
The craft/home improvement/lifestyle blogging community is huge – and I willingly participate – but I am under no illusions that it is anything more than a hobby.
Making tutorials takes a HUGE amount of time but if you don’t secure compensation for it before you begin – you can’t then go looking for compensation afterwards.
I realize these comments are somewhat against the grain of the discussion but I think they are relevant. We all have choices and if you think that the people who work for free are devaluing YOUR contribution to an online community – you have to change YOUR game – not expect everyone else to change theirs.
Please note these are all general comments and do not relate to any one person/circumstance.
Regards, Lowri
Thank you, Lowri. I’m not sure that what Jenny (and I) are discussing here is the act of feeling angry about unpaid work we agreed to take on. What Jenny pointed out in her original comment to Creative Paperclay was that they were asking for a lot of professional services in exchange for very inadequate compensation. She simply pointed out the disparity between what’s being requested and what’s being offered. The issue here has more to do with the norms of the craft industry and the online craft community – and at this point, neither side is doing an adequate job of supporting the value of design services.
As I posted in response to Lee Anne’s comment, I do believe there are ways to design exchanges between craft companies and hobbyists so that both sides benefit. And alongside that, there also needs to be a redesign of exchange so that people who want to pursue creative careers can do that. I agree completely with those who point out that crafting is as “proper” a job as any other.
I think Corey’s comment is also great reading regarding the importance of drawing a distinction between hobbyist and professional services. And this doesn’t have to be a distinction of quality alone. There are elements of platform and experience and connections that can play in. When design is treated as a professional service, it encompasses more than the work itself.
The metaphor that keeps going through my head is scabs crossing a picket line. It undermines the fight for fare wages/conditions when there are those who are willing to do the job for free. You could also compare it to those that are angry about illegal immigrants doing low wage jobs, when American citizens are out of work.
In all these instences there are those who want the work but want to be respected for the work they do, and those who are willing to do the work for less – either because they need any money they can get or because the like the job and don’t care about money.
It is a frustrating situation, but one that has existed for a very long time.
I find this whole debate fascinating. As someone who came from a former life as “corporate creative” working as a creative director and graphic designer, I would never give those talents and my time designing on a computer away to a for-profit company for free! They are professional services that are valuable. And honestly I could offer my services to a big company for free and they likely wouldn’t take me up on the offer because they’d assume I wasn’t any good- simply because I was willing to work for free.
In graphic design- free or low cost competition can be a real problem if you are trying to work for really small companies. Mostly those jobs wind up going to students who are trying to break into the industry.
It astounds (and appalls) me that free seems to be a widespread expectation, even for large companies, in the crafting world right now.
Frankly, my intellectual property doesn’t become worth less just because it’s under the title of “crafting”. In fact it’s probably worth more because I spend way more time creating it than most of my graphic design work.
I have no idea about paper clays’s intentions in this and will not speculate on them. Speaking only from my personal experience- I’ve been in meetings where marketing teams have eagerly talked about getting “free exposure” from posts on “mommy blogs” as great ways to advertise while saving on the marketing budget. This type of marketing is not only seen as a way to save dollars but also the perfect way to make your brand seem like it’s being personally recommended by bloggers who have a following of readers that will literally follow the blogger into purchasing the product the blogger has posted about. In my experience it’s very much a oneway street. The exposure the companies are giving as “compensation” is often seen as worthless by the company. Which is why they classify this arrangement as “free marketing”.
I have hope that this will right itself as more crafters begin to understand the outcomes of the free work situations. But… I don’t know, maybe crafters need a union like actors have to help separate the professionals from amateurs. And keep big companies from exploiting people with dazzling suggestions of exposure.
Thanks so much for bringing your perspective in here, Meg. The idea of a union popped up on Twitter as well.
You hit upon what I think is a really important aspect of this whole discussion: the fact that so much marketing in the craft industry is going online, and the skyrocketing value of word of mouth. There’s an interesting thread on Jenny’s Facebook page talking about how, when companies require posts on our blogs and links back to theirs, what they’re really getting is SEO (Search Engine Optimization) value, and higher rankings in search engines. Many craft companies are much later to the internet party than many of us. So, if we’ve had longer to build our online platforms and we’ve gained bigger and more engaged readerships, shouldn’t we treat this as a high-value asset, too?
Hi Diane,
What a great conversation. Thank you for re-igniting a really wonderful exchange. I attended your lecture at Creative Conference West on the ROI of Free and think this touches on all of the same points you made. I work for C&T Publishing and we, like many manufacturers, have a blogger/crafter group called The Creative Troupe. I’ll include the link here: http://www.ctpub.com/client/client_pages/creative_troupe.cfm so everyone can take a look.
From a manufacturer perspective, we try and reward our members all the time through product, through hooking them up with teaching opportunities in their area, to giving them first dibs on our books to review and, quite honestly, anything else we can think of.
I think it would be a cop out to say that if you aren’t interested in these benefits, then don’t join. What I would like to offer is that, for C&T at least, I truly believe we offer a lot of benefits to our Creative Troupe. Just because we don’t offer cash, doesn’t meant that we don’t offer value and I suspect that a lot of crafters and designers would only choose to work with manufacturers whose products they trust, use, and enjoy so that they also see the value in the free products/discounts/other benefits.
The other factor I would like to mention is quality. As a manufacturer, we want open access for anyone to join in. Something that the lovely Abby Glassenberg, who commented above (and I have had the honor to work with…for a fee), is producing is probably going to be completely flawless; however, when you open it up to the general public, a manufacturer never knows what kind of quality to expect. This is another tricky situation. Do we offer some a monthly fee and not to others? Isn’t that likely to ‘get around’ and reflect poorly on the manufacturer (not to mention hurt someone’s feelings)? Would that breed further discontent that more experienced designers seem to be getting all the benefits? Do we offer everyone the same fee even with vastly differing degrees of quality? Do we ask for a submission and acceptance process?
I think this opens a whole different can of worms that positions the manufacturer as an arbiter of quality. While we certainly aim to do that with our highly edited and reviewed line of books and products, I don’t think that we want to or should be making judgements on a part of our marketing strategy that we see as fun (I hope we don’t forget about the fun part), as exposure, as voluntary, and where we treat our designers with respect.
As an upcoming designer, would you prefer to have a gatekeeper, or is the goal just to get your work in front of as many eyes as possible and let the general public decide if they like it? To take advantage of every opportunity because it might lead to something else? I don’t know what the answer is as it is probably different for everyone, but I think that leaving it as an open platform where anyone can join is a great place to start.
I also think that if designers/artists are (and I do hope that this is the case) very selective about whom they work with in similar manufacturer programs, and that if they cultivate a loyal relationship with the Marketing Team, there may be a scope to talk with them on an individual basis about receiving additional benefits (deeper product discounts, more consistent exposure, etc.).
HA! Maybe I am saying that it is a choice…but hopefully a thoughtful one.
Thanks for offering a publisher perspective here, Susanne. I’ve been struggling to articulate this, but maybe what we’re really talking about in all of this is the importance of designing mutually-beneficial exchanges. I agree that any designer can and should decide which opportunities are worth his or her while, but I have to take the industry to task for designing so many one-sided exchanges. The four programs outlined on your Creative Troupe page do seem reasonably balanced, but the program offered by Creative Paperclay was not. If it were a more common practice among industry companies to create programs that offer more value to designers in exchange for cash or alternative payments, then hobbyists and professionals would have a better menu of choices. Right now, the menu is pretty slim, and I think it’s worth pointing out bad offers when they appear as a means of helping the landscape change.
From my experience Diane these companies do see a bloggers reputation and the trust their readers have in them as a commodity they want to tap into. One that conveniently… they can largely get for free. And since their products cost them almost nothing, personally I still consider that working for free. W.O.M is probably the highest value advertising if you consider how often it turns directly to dollars in the form of a purchase. When a company is asking you to post on your own blog not just theirs, provide a list of your contacts and forums that you belong to as part of your credentials being considered, in my opinion they are trying to tap into your contacts- period. And in every other industry I can think of people get paid for that information alone… never mind putting together tutorials, taking pictures and composing posts.
As a graphic designer I would never, ever work in exchange for product. In lots of cases I would likely get product from the company as either part of my research and understanding of their brand or as a goodwill gesture in additional to being paid for my time/designs.
The photographer or copywriter would also be paid.
And while I’d like to think companies are moving beyond the work for free/exposure/products model, there are some that are moving backwards. Recently I approached a company I have worked with before and was told that this time they were going to be using unpaid work from bloggers. I was offered the chance to give them my work- for which I had previously been paid. Needless to say I declined.
Although I found that experience discouraging… it also made me wonder about the people who were working for free. Would they have been so happy with the arrangement if they new that a month or two before I had been paid for doing the same type of work they were giving away?
The unfortunate side-effects of all this is that artists and crafters who are trying to make a living with their craft are having a harder time because of hobbyists who are less concerned about remuneration for their time or expertise.
An artist friend of mine went to a small business resource centre to get help in growing her business, and she was told, point blank, that art is not a business, it’s a hobby. It’s an uphill climb to change those attitudes.
I have thought a lot about this in my personal life lately. I was recently accepted by a number of big companies to do designs for them. My compensation is goods & my hope that it will help me break into that world more. I see it as an internship. A limited time offer where I will offer my services for education and a hope for a professional position in time.
Do we consider internships that largely go unpaid any different? It’s paying your dues in my opinion. I think it’s a hard fought honor to just be an intern in many cases.
I can tell you that in 3 years, no I will not offer my work for free except for the occasional freebie on my blog.
We all have to do what feels right for us, but it doesn’t mean that is how everyone sees it or the way it necessarily should be.
I’m glad you’re putting a specific ending-date on your free work. I’ll bet you can move to paid work much sooner than three years’ time.
I agree with Genevieve. If we are business people we need to approach things as a business person.
If I were a Realtor and all kinds of part-time, brand new real estate agents were working for their clients for free, I would have to figure out how to make people understand the value of my skills so they would pay for me instead of taking the cheaper, easier route.
“Designers” offer experience, business skills, established presences online and in the crafting community, proven results in promoting and educating about product, among other things. “Hobbyists” don’t offer that. Period.
So as Designers we have to market ourselves to companies we want to work with better. If they don’t understand that or the low-hanging fruit of hobbyists working for free is more appealing than offering fair compensation (which can be product, promotion etc, does not HAVE to be money)then we as Designers have to look for work elsewhere. I think having these discussions will help educate everyone involved in the issue and help bring concerns to light but it has to be done in a constructive and supportive way. I agree, there is no one-size-fits-all approach and every company and Designer is in a different stage of their business evolution. I think the more we discuss, the more we involve the companies, then the more we may be a part of the solution instead of just looking like complainers or drama queens (this has been said of this discussion in several places I have seen it referenced on Facebook).
Well said, Jennifer, though I hope we don’t look like drama queens. I was disappointed by the tenor of some of the conversation on Facebook yesterday, to be sure.
I love this discussion! I know that this has been brought before in the past on another website’s forum and it was equally as engaging as this. There are few things that I want to point out from my own personal experience.
I have attended many CHA’s to work for a manufacturer within their booth. It is dirty, tiring, exhausting work and you are not there to play or walk the show for fun. I found this out the very first show I worked. I slept for almost 24 hours after getting home.
I did not go the next time I was asked because I was not paid to work, just the accomodations and ticket to get there. I couldnt justify doing this because it meant leaving my family behind, taking a week off from getting paid from my job, let alone how exhausting it was after the show was over. The people they had work that show I didnt attend, did not work out too well, so they changed proceedures because it wasnt worth it. I am proud of myself for standing my ground and not accepting the terms that I felt were unfair. Now I continue to work each show and I work my hardest for them because that is what i am there to do…and i have grown very fond of this company over time because I feel my hard work is valued.
My heart sinks everytime someone offers to work for free, just to go. And trust me…they get what they pay for when it is allowed. I have seen it happen time and time again.
So when you make statements like that, try and remember whose toes you are stepping on. They may be your toes someday…
Thanks for chiming in, Cari. Can you please clarify? When you say, “when you make statements like that…” to what statements are you referring?
Yes! When statements are made…i’ll go for free or I will work for free…statements that I have personally seen.
What I am seeing here is a pattern of disconnect between what constitutes proper compensation and the idea that if you are in a creative field, it isn’t a real job. For the sake of argument, let’s define compensation as either goods, cash or benefits. Throughout my time of creative career(s) (musician first, designer/seamstress after that) I have found myself having to defend the definition of my chosen profession as a “real job” like any other. I am formally and informally educated, have done my time earning my place among my peers just like any doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, waitress or gainfully employed person. Many seem to think that it is somehow different. It is not. I still have to live by the same societal rules that everyone else does. I don’t get a pass on my phone bill because I make pretty things. I have to sell the things so that I can pay my phone bill.
There are cases where product or publicity are worth trading my services for, and there are cases where it is not. This is up to the individual to make the choice whether the offer is one they want to accept. However, I think that it is important to educate ourselves and companies on what goes in to doing these projects, and what proper compensation means. These discussions are important, because many of us have learned the hard way about what it means to work for free, and in many cases what it is like to undercharge for our work.
Whenever someone asks me to do something “for exposure,” from experience, I tend to run the other way. These requests, when they come from someone who is inexperienced gets an explanation of the cost of my time, and what goes into such a project. Most often the response is “I had no idea.” When it comes from a big company that can afford to pay, but uses the “but this is the industry standard” line, you can see the steam leaking out of my ears. Because what they are essentially asking, is for me to PAY THEM to promote their product or company.
I am not into preaching at people as to how they should run their businesses or whether they should ever give time for free, but to make informed decisions that take into account the time, experience and cost of that decision. Companies should also be aware of what they are asking for when they are asking for people to work for free. Many are totally unaware of what they are asking, they just want a good photo for their website without considering what it actually takes to get there.
Beautifully-said, Kirsten, and thank you!
I love that this discussion is taking place, and remaining respectful and thought-provoking here amongst some differing opinions.
Like Diane, I personally feel that working for product only can be reasonable compensation for a single project. There have also been many occasions when I have seen a DT call for a company whose products I love, and I have opted not to apply because the work required did not seem in line with the compensation. Honestly, if you were to break down the cost of your time at minimum wage, I think you would find it would be more cost-effective in most cases to just buy the product in question and skip applying for the DT.
Ultimately each designer, whether professional or hobbyist, is free to choose whether a design position lines up with their perception of fair compensation. And it is obvious that perception varies greatly from an enthusiast who just craves some recognition, to a professional trying to make a living.
All I suggest is that designers of all levels value their time and talent enough to expect fair compensation from the companies profiting from it. Don’t sell yourself short because you’re new or “just a hobbyist” — that affects us all, and it affects your future compensation when you’re more experienced as well. If you have something of value to offer, take a moment to work out the actual time commitment and multiply it by an hourly rate, and then ask yourself if the compensation is reasonable. And if it isn’t, speak up for yourself and your fellow designers.
The companies won’t value us until we value ourselves. In most cases, the marketing budget is there, going to a different cog in the machine who isn’t afraid to expect payment for services rendered.
Wow, I love that framing, Tami. Thank you!
Hi again Diane – reading all the comments overnight it would seem my opinions are definitely not shared by the majority!
I think everyone has made great points and after thinking a lot about this overnight, I think what I object to fundamentally is being told I am devaluing myself and others by choosing to work for product.
Only I can make the choice what I work for and if choosing to work for product only means I am lowering the bar for others who choose to do it as a living, then maybe your business model is unrealistic in the current market.
I have not taken offense at any of the comments – I think it has been a really interesting discussion and I certainly hope I have not caused any offense to others.
Emotions do run high in this kind of debate but it’s not a debate unless both sides have a voice – and I thank Diane again for allowing both sides to be presented.
Regards, Lowri
Thank YOU, Lowri, for being such an even-keeled alternate viewpoint, both here and over on the Facebook threads.
I’m sorry if anything said in this discussion has made you feel devalued. That was never my intention in my post or the ensuing discussion. I think you (and Kirsten, and others here) are right to point out that there can’t be one solution for everyone. There’s still the very real and sticky problem of the craft industry gravitating toward design services it can get for free, but you’re right – that’s nothing personal on you.
While I understand what Lowri and some others have said, in that they have the right to accept what they feel is compensation, wee must truly come to the realization that this is all business. Money, though it is ugly to discuss and not fun, is the ruling factor.
Being a classically trained artist that eventually became a business person in the art industry I have seen all sides of the issue. Then when I became a SAHM and then wanted to venture out in the DT world (THAT was an eye-opener), I see even more sides. What the hobbyist or ‘casual DT’ member needs to understand is that when one is being compensated by product, you are doing the company a favor doubly. Most of it is older product that will be devalued at tax-time, some corporations can write off the product they give to designers as charitable deductions even; a large paper company in the southwest uses this practice actually. So while one may be satisfied with product compensation, one needs to understand this action is setting the norm. So as a community of artists, we need to have some solidarity. Solidarity is not easy, it can be uncomfortable, but is necessary to produce change.
Wow. That’s crazy. That’s like a clothing company giving away clothes to fashion bloggers & writing it off as charity to the homeless!
Hi, Diane.
I must thank you and everyone who has commented for opening a side of my profession that I did not know existed. This whole discussion has totally captured my attention since reading CTD yesterday. Being new to the Internet world and not knowledgeable of the ins and outs, I have been flying by the seat of my pants, not really knowing what to do, but using instinct on advertising ‘me’.
I have been a designer and artist all of my life. I had to retire from my field (tattoo artist) due to extreme medical problems and their extremely limiting side effects; i.e. kidney failure. Dialysis takes away my time. When I get home from treatment, I’m so exhausted and spent, there’s very little energy to do anything. Hence, my working from home in a field I know well and love.
I have recently started my blog, and when I did, I had to clue as to what I was doing or what I wanted to ‘say’. Was what I wanted write interesting enough? Would people want to read it? Anyway, I went with it, learning along the way.
The discussion here, I believe, has been something I have been subconsciously waiting for and needing to know. I haven’t finished reading everything yet, but dialysis looms tomorrow and I will read as much as I can there. I need to know the ins and outs, the whys and wherefores, and be able to analyze a situation should I ever be called upon to do so. Everything written here has so fascinating and intense, and I can’t thank you all enough for leading down a road I didn’t know might show up.
Hopefully, in the future, I can look forward to some monetary compensation for my work. In the meantime, I’ll keep reading and thinking, and of course, working.
Thank you. My eyes are open and focused.
I must apologize for my horrible writing. I was typing so fast to get everything out that I omitted words that would have made the sentence more intelligent sounding.
I have come to the discussion late, and as a result I am still trying to catch up with all the comments and posts here and on CTD, so I hope I am not being redundant, but I think I have a unique perspective.
I still feel like a newbie in this industry, however I have been a freelance designer for several decades, first in the fashion industry, then the toy industry. I started with the craft industry as a project designer accidentally when I received product for Christmas from a friend who had started a new business, and now find myself as the creative director for a craft tool manufacturer. This switch from one side of the fence to the other has been incredibly sobering in many respects and while I fully agree that designers should be compensated fully and honestly for their work, I also understand the difficult position this economy has put many companies in.
Let me illustrate: Manufacturer A is working with a Big Box Chain, who agrees to carry their widget if they can guarantee they can provide 10,000 units for delivery by a certain date. In order to meet the delivery date, Manufacturer A orders 10,000 units from the overseas widget factory, to be shipped and delivered before the Big Box due date. The terms with the factory require payment within 30 days of delivery. The contract with the Big Box means compensation for Manufacturer A’s widgets will be remitted 45 – 60 days from delivery date. This leaves a 15 – 30 day discrepancy between payment and remittance. Then the Big Box Chain only orders 10% of the quantity they required Manufacturer A to guarantee. Manufacturer A now has an extra 9,000 widgets, and no budget to market them. For many small companies, this is not a new story and I can see how using these widgets as compensation for those willing to work for them is an appealing option, for some it may be the only option to stay in business. On this point I fully agree with your comments regarding trading free product for a free blog. No long term commitment; one for one.
One of my responsibilities as creative director is to oversee the design team for the company who has compensated its’ designers from the beginning. In this, my eyes have really been opened. The level of professionalism of some designers is very inconsistent. Let me be very clear, these instances have been with only a couple members of the dt team I inherited, BUT I have had trouble maintaining deadlines, poor work submissions, inability to accept creative direction and frustration with submission procedures. Now that the dt contracts are up, I find myself seeking a better model for creating creative content to broaden our customer base.
Combine the issue of too little budget/too much product and that of design team professionalism with the tumult in CHA over the past few months (years)and it is clear why sales in this category are soft. I can’t help but wonder what happened to the consumer in this industry being over run by pseudo celebs who prance around trade shows like royalty and big companies that if they can’t absorb you will copy and mass produce your concepts. It seems that a lot of egos have barred the path to success and at the end of the day are willing to throw someone else under a truck to get ahead personally.
Designers should be paid for their work OR contracted with for suitable compensation, which could also include product. It seems there must be a middle ground. Some way to combine the two so struggling companies can do the right thing.
I’d love to see a functioning middle ground, Paula. I do appreciate that many craft companies are under huge economic pressures. In tough economic times, I feel like that middle ground will be hard to reach without some pressure on our parts, because a company struggling with its bottom line will so often opt for the least expensive route.
Manufacturers in this industry need to be educated regarding designers time and value. Designers need to understand the financial demands and constraints of small manufacturers. It’s easy to see what may look like a big company from the outside as a “free ticket” to get an easy paycheck.
For me the bottom line is–designer “work for hire” must be compensated for a company to use it. Ultimately, the contract for what that compensation looks like, is between the designer and the contracting company.
If companies are expected to fairly compensate, then designers need to toughen up, accept creative direction under the contracts they sign and honestly do the work. I have been sadly disappointed to see work that was double billed (project invoiced for our company, then used for other design teams as well), dishonest work (claiming they used products when it was clear from the photographs they did not) and complaints about creative procedure (“the other design teams I’m on don’t do it that way”). Unfortunately, these were not single isolated events, and fixing them has required far too much of my time, making the project expense far exceed its value.
Both sides need to step up.
I still believe there needs to be some room in the equation for creative compensation. As an artist I have traded services very equitably in the past and am grateful there are opportunities to do so, especially in an economy like this one.
As an artist you must value your work and make sure the compensation you receive (product, money, exposure, services, opportunities, etc.) is equal to your time, experience, influence and expense.
Thanks, Diane (and Jenny) for facilitating this discussion. It is very timely for some marketing decisions I am making and it has really given me a lot to think about. When you are in the moment, it’s easy to only see the side you are on. Sometimes, it’s not until you hear the other side from competent and reliable sources, that you can re-shape your paradigm.
That’s so well-said, Paula, and thank you. You are right; every debate is a two-way street, and it was interesting to get a small glimpse of your experiences working with designers. I’m sure there’s a wide spectrum at work there, and certainly not every designer behaves in the ways you describe.
You’re making me wonder whether some kind of fairly universal metric couldn’t be formulated to help a new designer (or hobbyist) calculate their market value.
I definitely think I can see both sides of the debate here. I don’t necessarily think that asking for free design help is bad, but I think the compensation needs to be just. To offer $10 of product for 20 hours of work is obviously undermining the “designers” time, but to offer a large product with little return on time could be well justified on the designers part. The company will after all be making a large profit based on their designers (hopefully), otherwise they would not have those designers on their team, so they should be expect to compensate their designers accordingly. In a down economy, for a struggling company, the best means of payment might be in product, not in cash that is low.
Now, if someone chooses to do something for free, purely because they like the idea of creating with a product, but not interested in the profit, then that is their prerogative as well. Just because someone creates for a company for free doesn’t mean they are looking to get more out of it, nor are they trying to undermine those that are trying to make a living from it. Sometimes crafter’s just like to craft for the sake of crafting and why shouldn’t they have the opportunity to do so? Doing so may also open more doors for them, and that may be payment enough as well.
All of us started at the bottom and took opportunities to grow, somewhere along the line that might have been forgotten. As your talents and voice grow, so should your “pay”. Bottom line I think is stick up for yourself and do what you think is right, but also try and lighten up a little and see the other side. A little understanding goes a long way.
I found all of these comments eye-opening and often, somewhat appalling to read. It’s distressing that so many designers and crafters are not compensated justly for their time.
One refrain I see cropping up over and over is “tough economic times”. It’s true, but it’s not a reason to treat people badly. That’s part of what makes the difference between a good company and a sweatshop owner.
I do note that a lot of this happens in other industries like theater, graphic and web design. But I still can’t help wondering how much of this is women devaluing their work? Is this also a problem in historically male-dominated industries like wood working or metalcraft?
I think this is an excellent and thought-provoking question. Wish I knew where to get my hands on some data.
I’ve been working in the Arts & Crafts industry as a free lance designer since the early 90′s. I’m a professional, which means I get paid for my work. It’s a job/business like any other and I treat it that way. I’m incorporated and I have a business checking account and credit card. Before that I was a professional crafter and I sold my projects at craft shows – I did not give them away. Working for free was unheard of until scrapbooking set the industry on fire in the mid 90′s. As a consultant in the industry I remember vividly a conversation with the founders of what was then a new scrapbooking magazine. They wanted to know how I worked with magazines and book publishing companies. I gave them a range of what a designer would expect to get paid for a project with instructions, or a book. Their comment – “why would we pay for something we can get for free”. This was pretty much when “working for free” was established as a norm in the industry (but only in scrapbooking). Many of the manufacturers who came into the industry after the mid 90′s have adopted the same attitude which still prevails today – 15 years later! The internet has enhanced this even further, because anyone can publish and share their creations. As professional designers we also post projects on our websites, blogs, in videos and participate in blog hops. We justify it (self included) as being good PR, but we are also giving our designs away for free. The difference being it’s for ourselves and our decision. DTs are a pretty new phenomenon and I believe manufacturers are creating them because everyone else is and, for the most part, they don’t see anything wrong with what they’re doing. It’s a great way to get a wide variety of content for all the places they now need to advertise online and off. There are manufacturers who really value the designers on their teams and treat them accordingly and there are some who take advantage. I think open discussions will benefit everyone – it’s certainly making CPC think twice. No one wants bad press. BTW, this subject comes up quite often and Mike Hartnett has had some interesting and thought provoking articles in his online newsletter, Creative Leisure News. I’d also like to point out that most manufacturers who have been in the industry before the mid 90′s, pay for projects they use for marketing and advertising and many of them offer indorsements (Designer Support Programs). Unless designers/hobbyists stop applying to be on design teams, I doubt anything will change. I’ve already written way too much, but if I enjoyed crafts as a hobby, I would work hard to establish and promote my blog, post great projects then contact manufacturers whose product I’d like to work with and invite them to check out my blog and send me samples to work with. In return I would post a project on my blog featuring their product and link to their website. Make sure you have a copyright watermark on any photo you post. If they like your project you can then offer to send it to them with full instructions for a nominal fee. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I like that approach, Julie – fair exchange on both sides. Many thanks for giving us this long-view perspective, and for mentioning Mike Hartnett. For those interested in his seasoned take on industry, you can get it here: http://www.clnonline.com/
Such an interesting discussion and definetly something I have been thinking over a lot. There are many things that are happening in the craft and art industry right now that make you think.
Designteam Work:
I think there is a difference too in what kind of work the company is looking for.
If it is something they sent you some products and ask you for once in a while to send them in some projects, they showcase you – then this might be a win-win situation.
But nowadays each company at least in the Scrapbooking world wants to have their designers create at least 3-4 project a month, post on the manufacturer’s blog, post on their own blog, share their work on different galleries, post on the social media sites and do some extra work when CHA approaches. They pay in products- sent out a couple boxes- the main cost is the shipping here. I have had companies that want you to create CHA samples and pay for your own shipping, companies that have you work for End Caps – not even thinking of compensating you etc. I do coordinate a designteam and I do not think this is right. A designer is there for you to advertise, you should get compensated in a realistic way for your work. Free products might be wonderful for those that are just creating for the Love of creating but companies are asking way more for this nowadays than it is worth it and there are enough people out there with lot’s of hope swimming in the blender so to see if they can make it to something bigger. But they are always just swimming against the blades. Been there – done that! Cut down a lot of those design teams.
I can understand that there are people that are happy just for working for the products- but they need to ask themselfes also if what they get is justified and if they see the bigger picture here. I do not hold a grudge against designers that do it for almost nothing- I do hold a grudge against those manufacturers and companies that are taking advantage of this- they do and they are aware of this!
DesignerPayment/Compensation:
This is another problem that I have seen the last couple months. Companies that do not fullfill their part of their contract. They either not ship the products,they do not pay you for your publications, although it is stated in your contracts or they do not stick up to their discounts and credits they have been giving you via the contract.
If they want loyality and good work as a company they need to compensate their designers in a good way- this is ADVERTISMENT in a way that couldn’t be any better for them. The companies get an immense value from those designers- posting on all sorts of social media and internet canals – promoting their products, leading up to stores stocking their products because of those designers etc etc – there is so much connected with a good designer: it is not too much too ask for a fair compensation and stick to the contracts!
What makes me wonder is often how lax other designers are dealing with those things. They simply say “ah – well- at least I got some products” – or “mmh – yeah not so nice…but I want the exposure”
I don’t get it – you don’t want your compensation you were promised to get? What if they just don’t sent you anything at all and make you do all the work for them ? Where do you draw the line then? NOt asking in a insulting way, just simply not understanding.
Teaching/Workshops:
There is also a couple things tick me off the last couple months about teaching- a lot has to do with copyright etc – but one that is connected with the “free” thought I will mention:
Stores/Eventplanners:
Asking you to come and teach at your event. Negotiate contracts with you- after agreeing to the contract and a downpayment- starting to negotiate the down payment or the contract or the payment again. Some are even surprised that you want your money. Hello? This is not a bazzar- it is a business- it is a contract- we do not have to talk about a contract if you turn around and change all of a sudden everything again.
Sorry for the rant now- but it is really something that I was either not aware before that this seems to be normal- or it is something that is new – in either way- I do not like it!
Thanks for reading this- and please don’t be offended – writing about such topics is always harder than discussing this in person!
Thanks so much, Nathalie, and you’re right – writing these discussion IS harder than speaking them!
Your comment helped me get at something I’ve been struggling to say the right way…
It really IS okay if a hobbyist wants to work for product. I don’t want to take away anybody’s right to craft the way they want to. What I DO hope for, though, is that all crafters be willing to make decisions that benefit not only them, but also help shape a more equitable industry.
So, with that ‘equitable industry’ model of decision-making, a hobbyist might think twice before taking what is essentially an unpaid part-time job in exchange for a box of product. And a professional designer might use his of her industry contacts to champion more innovative design-team and marketing practices – ones that give both professionals and hobbyists fair opportunities.
The thing to remember is, each of us plays a role in how well companies treat crafters (and vice versa). We all benefit from this community, whether through free online inspiration and instruction, or daily camraderie, livelihood or discussions like this one.
…So, in a way, perhaps we owe the community a thought or two in our personal decision-making?
Diane
THANK YOU for making this an incredible read- your steady leadership has lead to so many informative comments I feel like I’ve done a year’s worth of learning in the hour it took me to read all this. I would very much LOVE to be compensated- here is my issue
1. I just started out so like Paula pointed out I am VERY uneven in my work- some of my projects are amazing some are at best “bleh”. How do I value that work? This is a very compelling issue in of itself and I would love to hear more.
2. I just started out so how could I compete with people who have been making things for 12 years? By working for free.
I have been rethinking my strategy because I am currently on several DT for challenge blogs and while the camaraderie is amazing and the inspiration wonderful I have found that the amount of work required is increasingly stressful and cuts down time from actually looking for paid work- the last time work did that I was making a salary. Also the “exposure” is as uneven as my work. Many times links back to my personal blog are omitted thus negating any benefit at all for my work.
I would also like to note that there is a difference between Design Team work for large companies or magazines and design work for challenge blogs or individual shops in places like ETSY. The blogs and 1 person run companies are looking for way to stay competitive and turn a profit in a very flooded field with low sales because the products they sell are luxuries. By luxury I simply mean that most people divide their budgets differently now- gas, the mortgage/rent or groceries come first these days.
The hope of small craft companies (I assume) is that by having large teams they will gain enough exposure to turn a profit and I don’t think we can fault them for that. So I agree it should be taken on a case by case basis and that the onus is on beginners like me to evaluate their time and the opportunities CAREFULLY before jumping in and finding (like I just have) that the time required and the amount of effort is just too large to do it all for free.
Thanks so much for your kind words and for joining the discussion, Michelle.
Your question about the unevenness of early work and how to value that is an excellent one. (Although I’ve been designing crafts professionally for about four years, and I still feel like my work is pretty uneven, too! I think unevenness may be part of the creative process.)
Here’s how I come up with a valuation for my time, just for example. Maybe some other designers might share they models they use, too? I look at my current living expenses and my earning goals for my business. Then I use a 40-hour work week as a basis, and come up with a minimum hourly rate of pay I can afford to work for. I use this minimum rate as a yardstick for every project I take on. How many hours do I estimate the project will take? How much does it pay? And will I end up at or above my base rate?
I’ll admit that estimating the time needed for a project gets a lot easier with experience, though I still make spectacular miscalculations at times. But by and large, this baseline has helped me stay with projects that pay fairly. I’ve stopped doing things for free almost entirely, though I did quite a few of them early on. I wish, though, that I’d done a more careful job of evaluating these opportunities back in the day – I’d probably have skipped about half of them, and ended up with the same exposure and more time.
I really believe that your personal blog is a great place to work on your growth as a designer in a public format. Even when a design goes wrong, you can share it on your blog and talk about why you think it fell short. That’s still a good glimpse into your design mind, just like your best projects show off your skills.
I agree with you that fledgling companies need ways to generate content from their products. I have no problem with mutually-beneficial, one–time kinds of trades. But I don’t think any company should expect you to do its marketing without payment.
Ok, I haven’t read through all of the comments, but I had to go ahead and give my two cents worth.
To me, this feels like an unpaid internship. It is an opportunity for a new designer to get experience in how the system works. The company provides the materials and they work like dogs for six months to get experience and get a foot in the door. Standard internship.
That said, you do get what you pay for. An intern is an intern because they have no experience, even if they have great talent. They are going to screw up, they are going to miss deadlines.
I think Creative Paperclay is making a mistake in staffing their entire design team with interns. They would do better to have a trial period, after which you could have the chance of being hired on at an actual rate (even if it is $50 a month or whatever).
My thoughts…
[...] Sister Diane sums up Jenny’s take, and her own, over on Craftypod. Go have a look. [...]
Wow. This is rocking my socks off.
There is so much that I want to reply to that I don’t know where to start!
I’ll try to edit myself to things I think have been unsaid :)
Lowri (sp?) said: “The value of any persons job is determined by what an employer is willing to pay – not by the employee themselves.”
This is true, if you’re an employee, hired by an employer (who, it is assumed, is paying you minimum wage and providing job stability).
But as a freelance designer, you (the general *you*, not anyone specifically) are not an employee and have none of the benefits (stable work, regular pay, benefits like paid leave or insurance), so you must act as an entrepreneur. This means deciding on your OWN value and then finding a market that can support it.
A “call to arms” is useful in that it can help CREATE that market when professionals band together to demand the current market pay fairly (unions!)…but no matter what you decide your worth to be, and whether it seems to exist or not, it’s still up to you to find it (or to rethink your strategy). It’s easy to forget that if you can’t get paid to make tutorials, you might be able to sell the actual THING to a high-end luxury market (not to fellow crafters)…or you could have the thing manufactured…or you could teach (online or in person)…or you could write for publications that pay writers.
What’s interesting to me about the whole Design Team concept (and I’m just discovering it thanks to this post!), is that the EXACT same work made for a company for free could be sold to a magazine for pay.
And then the Design Teams are expecting marketing/community managing work as well? That’s an entirely different job (it’s actually part of what I do, and get paid well for)…I’m pretty shocked to learn that anyone does this as part of “designing”.
Ok, now my last thought: this isn’t at all how it works in knitting (the world I’ve been in)…and I’m thinking looking at their model might be great for some other craft supply companies (and designers).
Yarn companies may ask a designer to knit something with their yarn. In exchange, the designer gets the yarn and either Gets Paid (if the company wants to “own” the design) or Gets To Sell The Pattern (and it belongs to the designer). In the first option, the company can sell the pattern, publish it for free, etc. In the second option, the company gets the publicity when the designer sells it to a magazine or sells it from their own site.
At knitting trade shows, yarn companies are THROWING their yarn at designers, for free, with no contract or even promise that the designer will design something with it. Yarn companies understand the the designers will be designing with SOME yarn and it might as well be theirs…and they have a better chance of that happening if they give the yarn to the designer.
Now, it’s still up to the knitting designer to find a market for their work (either magazines/books or a loyal following of their own, so that they can sell their patterns online or in yarn shops).
I wonder why it doesn’t work like this for other crafters/designers? Perhaps because crafters/designers aren’t in the habit of selling their instructions?
All the same, magazines like Somerset Studios and Cloth Paper Studios and Stitch pay for the patterns/tutorials they feature (not the gallery, but the pieces that include instructions)…so why wouldn’t the company?
Definitely a great idea to bring up the knitting community, Tara – I know the whole “free” discussion rages there too, but I also think that in many ways knitters and crocheters have clearer paths to payment, thanks in no small part to Ravelry. I also think that knitters and crocheters are at an advantage in terms of selling instructions/patterns because it’s not at all easy to reverse engineer a finished knitted/crocheted item. With many other craft designs, there may be little impetus for most crafters to pay for instructions when they can pretty easily figure out the process on their own.
Crafters selling to crafters is a way stickier wicket, but at least in selling to companies, I think we can exercise more control by banding together and speaking up.
I’ve been designing professionally for over four years now. It has been my full time job since day one. And while I often have fun at this, there are days I miss the ability to walk out of my former fun job at the end of the day and know I wouldn’t have to deal with it until the start of my next shift. I don’t have that luxury when there’s a deadline involved.
I have learned over the last few years that exposure and free product does not pay bills. Therefore, I choose, according to my business plan, to not take those types of compensation. It doesn’t mean I won’t barter, but it has to be mutually beneficial. For example, I have an arrangement with a friend to crochet something for her in exchange for her to do a set of headshots for me. This is something I would have easily paid her to do (as she would have easily paid me for the time and expertise to crochet an item), but we have both agreed that this works fairly for both of us because the time spent for each thing is similar.
I think there’s room for bartering and free product, when the compensation in goods equals the amount of work requested. Usually, for me, that means it’s a one time thing for a one time thing. Trading a bit of product for hours and hours of ongoing work? Not the same.
In small fledgling companies, I can understand it. I can even get behind it because if they’re working to make sure the exchange is fair, then it’s okay. But in a company that has the ability to pay staff or consultants or independent contractors? Not so much. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I looked over the “offer”. The exchange rate there isn’t equal. Even for someone doing this as a hobby and not at a professional level, it’s not an equal exchange rate and asks for way more than they’re willing to give.
In the end, each person must make the decision whether to accept terms based on what that person’s business plan is. Mine doesn’t include doing major work for simply exposure or product. Another designer’s might. That’s not for me to judge. However, it doesn’t stop me from believing that it’s an unfair trade and wishing that companies would figure that out.
I read some of the debate….I’ve been on a few design teams and they have been very generous, sending me heaps of product, and I’ve had a lot of freedom to create what I want. I get to keep everything I’ve made and their expectations (in terms of posting, forum participation, etc) have been very reasonable. I would have scrapped those photos anyway, I’m just using their products on my page. The product I’ve been sent have always been new release and they’ve taken into account my design style, and that I have daughters.
I DO think there are some shops and manufacturers that expect too much in return for too little. I’ve seen design team positions advertised with an expectation of daily forum participation, hosting challenges, posting tutorials, and a lot of projects to be completed, etc. etc. If it’s ceasing to be FUN, and becoming a CHORE, the designer should be paid.
Those design teams that expect (what I consider) too much in return for a small amount of product……I don’t, and won’t ever, apply for.
I’m glad to hear from someone who’s actively participated in some design teams here – thanks, Tina.
Just a note on Tara’s comment, about work given for free to companies, but can be sold to a magazine. Some companies pay a publishing bonus to their design team if a project using their product is published (and so they should as they are getting free advertising). Additionally some companies will pay this to anyone who is published if you’ve used a certain amount of their product & inform them.
Well, there you go! It makes sense, then, to pursue designing for publication, as opposed to designing for the company for free!
I relate back to my previous comment about parallels in the acting world.
There is Equity (as someone else mentioned) that is a union for actors. It gives a minimum wage for actors with a breakdown of the levels of pay for different jobs. It also provides public liability insurance, and legal aid should you need it.
Now along side this is also the CDG- the casting directors guild. They aim to standardise professional practices and raise the level of professionalism.
That said- of course bad practice still occurs, unpaid work is rife, however, casting calls can be put in place to ONLY accept equity actors, eliminating some of the non-professional actors.
It is no way an ideal working model, but it is something that could be put in place within the crafting arena.
A union for professional crafts people, a guild for fair and professional companies, therefore a nod in the right direction to standardising practice and conduct.
It of course wouldn’t stop people working for free or for product, (as it is right for people to choose what works for them) but it would allow crafters and companies to distinguish themselves as professional and industry standard, and eventually raise practices for all those involved.
:o)
Hhhhmmmmmm … I wonder how one goes about setting one up?? ….
Agreed! Seems like an awfully good role for CHA to take on, doesn’t in?
It does … although based in the UK, maybe they could have a UK branch as well! :o) !
[...] is @SisterDiane (from Craftpod) has written a post on Designers being expected to work for pittance as an example. The comments in particular make interesting reading. Kim werker has also posted an [...]
[...] Jenny from Craft Test Dummies, but I didn’t stumble upon it until Diane of Craftypod wrote a great piece urging crafters to value your work in the marketplace. Kim Werker wrote about how working [...]
Well!! I’ve been reading off and on since this whole thing got started and still can’t quite articulate everything I think on the subject. But I’ve decided just to jump and chime in! :)
First let me say the obvious—this is a very important discussion to be having and it can’t fall through the internet cracks. Regardless of where we all stand, it is primarily an issue that involves all women in the industry—professional or not. If we do not take a stance no one will do it for us. This discussion is healthy! Thank you Diane for providing a safe and fair environment in which such a discussion can take place.
For those of you that don’t know, I am a graphic designer and crafter equally. By this I mean that my schedule rotates around projects for both types of clients and my online shop. I started my graphic design career first so the habits and industry standards that I experienced in that life has filtered into my craft work.
At the beginning of my crafting career I did do work that was for exposure only. In full disclosure, I still do on occasion. But I decide in a case by case basis and I only work with other individual designers or reputable bloggers/blogs. I’ve never accepted working on any DT or exchanged services for product.
Everyone has their standards and draws their own line in the sand. There is no one solution for everyone. Isn’t it the same for any other profession? However, I do think that there should be a way to differentiate professional crafters from those that are not—a movement/organization of sorts.
As I read everyone’s comments, I kept thinking that this would be a case for an “equal payment for equal work dot org” craft movement! I say that tongue in cheek—but it would be a way for professional crafters that would like to be heard, to be heard with one voice. Companies could join the movement and pledge and be recognized for paying fair wages. It’s needed. It’s high time.
This does not mean that I place any less value on the work done by women that do opt for product or work on a DT under any terms. Like I said, it’s all a matter of opinion, of choice—there is no wrong answer. But the louder we make the “we need to be paid fairly” crowd, if you are in this group, then something may move in that direction.
I wonder what CHA thinks of all this? I would like to hear from them. It shouldn’t be an issue where they just stand on the sidelines.
I don’t think I added anything new to the discussion, but I do think that if more voices are added the better.
Again, thank you Diane for carrying on this discussion!
[and thanks for reading all that! what if I really had something organized to say!! lol]
Thanks for joining in, Patricia! I love the idea of an organization that craft-industry companies could support publicly. What a great PR move! And I would love to hear CHA’s take on all of this as well.