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Here’s another big debate brewing in the community, and this time, it’s about Pinterest. I caught wind of it when Rachel sent me a link to an interesting discussion on Salt City Spice. The premise of that discussion is:
“Here’s the thing that’s been bothering me though – after a few months of pinning and in speaking with a variety of Etsy sellers, the same issue continues to come up: Artists, designers, & crafters are continually finding their original works tagged or categorized as “DIY” – is this wrong?”
The comment discussion is really interesting, and I can agree with elements of all sides. So I shared the link over on Google +, and even more interesting comments emerged there. (I do believe you’ll need a G+ account, and to be logged in, and be in one of my circles, to see that discussion.) Then Kim blogged about how creatives need to get over trying to control what happens to their creations. And then Katrina (the original author of the Salt City Spice post) had a second post on Oh, My Handmade.
All of these discussions bring up many of our community’s most recurring themes: original ideas, copying and protection. There are no universal answers (as usual), but the conversation brought up a few thoughts about Pinterest for me, and I thought I’d share them here.
Image by MichaelMKenny, via Flickr
Private Inspiration vs. Public Inspiration
Pinterest is an interesting (and sometimes messy) hybrid of public and private. By that I mean, it’s a tool we use to publicly do something we’ve been accustomed to doing privately.
We crafters have always saved examples of interesting projects and pictures – whether they were torn from magazines, earmarked in books, or bookmarked on the web. These archives are like bank accounts for creatives: stuff we plan to make, stuff that sparked an idea for making something different, stuff that just makes us happy to look at. When this archive is private, it can take any form that’s useful to us – a shoebox of paper clippings, a bulletin board, a series of bookmark folders. And in a purely-private archive, it’s less important to note who created what, because it’s all a kind of personal creative soup we draw from.
But when our inspiration archives are made public, as on Pinterest, we have a bigger responsibility: we need to make an effort to maintain a clean, well-attributed archive that respects original creators. (That’s a big idea; keep it in the back of your head for a moment.)
A Dangerous Sort of Boiling-Down
I should say at this point, I adore Pinterest. But the thing that I love most about it is also the thing I find troubling about it. Pinterest, as we know, boils a website page down to a single picture. When you “pin” a great blog post or tutorial or roundup or anything, you choose one image from the page to represent it. These pictures, then, can be “repinned” by other Pinterest users. And thus, the pictures change hands and change hands. If the original pinner hasn’t properly credited the original creator, then the pins have a way of becoming just pretty pictures – their original context is lost.
Throughout the summer, I would often find interesting images on Pinterest and want to share the accompanying posts on CRAFT (like the one above). But unfortunately, so many times (like, one in about five), I would follow an image through one repin after another, only to finally land on the original pin and discover that someone had pinned only the image itself without its accompanying post, or they’d pinned the homepage of the site where the image appeared on a single day six months ago. In other words, bad attribution practices on Pinterest rendered it impossible for me to find and share the original creator’s work with a larger audience.
This loss of context also contributes to what Salt City Spice pointed out: Etsy sellers are regularly seeing their products-for-sale pinned, not as reminders to buy the product but as reminders to make a DIY version. The images come to represent ideas rather than products. (For the record, I also see this happening constantly with mainstream manufactured products, but I don’t see as many people up in arms over that.)
Pinterest has recently added a Pin Etiquette page to address bad attribution. And for a really thorough step-by-step take on how to attribute, read Rachel’s post.
Image by artjunkgirl, via Flickr
The Nature of the Crafty Beast
All of that said, I still agree with Kim’s point: once we post something on the internet, we cannot control its destiny, even if everyone in the community is using stellar attribution practices (or practicing ethical pinning).
The thing is, we creatives have grown accustomed to having access to thousands of pretty images 24-7. We now expect to look at unlimited crafty goodness, and then draw on those visual ideas as we make our own things. Some of us want to then sell what we make. And some of those who sell what they make seem to want to wall off those specific images, making them off-limits in a sea of visual inspiration.
Obviously, copying is bad. Stealing is bad. But every single one of us draws on other peoples’ work for inspiration. It’s our nature, and frankly, our privilege to have access to this rich and constantly-renewing treasure trove. Once you put an original design out there, you simply have to be prepared for others to draw upon it. I think Jessica said it best in her excellent comment on the Google Plus discussion:
“At the end of the day there’s always going to be the people who make and the ones that buy.”
This brings me to…
“Online” is Not Always “Marketing”
Crafters have been asking me whether Pinterest is a good marketing tool for their businesses almost since its first day. I see plenty of Pinterest accounts with Etsy shop names, where the users pin only pictures of their stuff for sale. If you ask me, that practice is more or less like sending engraved invitations to the people who make instead of buy.
One important way craft businesses can minimize the copying of their work is to get a lot smarter about their online marketing. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself whether any website is a place where your actual customers are hanging out (not your online buddies, and yes, there is a difference). In an environment like Pinterest, where everyone’s throwing pictures around like they’re candy, how does throwing your own pictures into the melee communicate the ways your product is unique and special?
(Interestingly, Pinterest’s Pin Etiquette page addresses self-promotion, too.)
Image by blackbiscuits, via Flickr
Of course, people other than sellers pin images from Etsy, and equally sadly, no Etsy seller can control where images from his or her shop will end up. But I do see an awful lot of Etsy sellers voluntarily putting their images in front of other crafters in the name of “marketing.” I’ve said this before, but I don’t think other crafters are necessarily the best customers for many handmade products. We’re good re-interpreters and reverse engineers. And Pinterest is an environment where we like to feed those skills.
What are your thoughts on Pinterest? What steps do you take when you pin (or repin) things to make sure the original maker is credited? Do you pin as a reminder to buy, or a reminder to make?
hmmmm, I pin just for me and I would love it if there was a ‘private’ option! For me, I still prefer to save images I find on my computer because I spend alot of time searching for whatever it is I’m looking for at the time.
I use pinterest as a quick visual guide for pre-design boards (I’m an interior designer and when I’m working on a clients room, I create a board for them and as I’m researching, pin things to their board – be it inspiration or pieces to buy).
I am guilty of not putting decent descriptions on (usually just a love it or /) because I tag the correct source and as I said, I would love for pintrest to have a private option.
Thank you for this excellent post. I probably spend 5 times as much time at Pinterest than I would need to if just repinned everything I found interesting. The badly/non-attributed issue and badly linked pins really irk me so I try and track down the original source. It takes a lot of time, but I like to know who the creator is and the context of the photos.
Google images search is a great resource. It doesn’t always work but I can often locate a photo’s original source with a bit of research there.
As for the #DIY issue, I actually have a DIY/crafts/handmade board so a non-tutorial-linked photo may end up with a DIY tag. I have also tagged other photos as DIY in different categories – I see these as inspiration for things I could make, just as I would a photo I see in a book or a magazine. Is that considered a rip off? Maybe. But it’s very rare to see a totally original craft idea these days, (no?) thanks to the Internet. But that’s another discussion completely…
Well-said, Grace, and thank you for commenting! That extra time you’re putting into Pinterest is surely appreciated by all the creators you pin.
Diane, I wanted to say thank you. I think you’re helping me be a better pinner/blog-reader/member of the craft community. :)
I always clicked through for direct links, but it never really occurred to me to give credit in the text too. I knew I was linking to the original source so I just hadn’t thought of it – and it’s so obvious (or should be!)
I’m also trying to be better about commenting on blogs I read (after reading your recent post about the nature of how we read blogs and how it’s evolved) – case in point – this is the first time I’ve commented on your blog, but I’ve been reading for months.
Thank you for all that you do and keep the awesome content coming!
Thanks so much for the comment, Scondy! I really appreciate you reading the blog.
Your post brings up so many good points, and like many I am re-evaluating how I pin. Honestly, I do not intend on pinning images to hurt business for others. For example, when I first started pinning I was just starting a home makeover project and I pinned images for inspiration as well as “how to” tutorials (how-to paint cupboards, etc).
From there it has evolved in broader meaning for me – my craft area does include pins of projects people have made and posted on their site and YES there are a few that after looking closer came from etsy. It wasn’t intentional as in: “Oh I’m “stealing” this”…but more of a “I wonder if I can make my own version of this?” And I will admit, even with those projects listed in those boards, I have yet to actually MAKE something. I need to make a board with suggestions to find more time!
So here’s what I’m going to do to become a better pinner:
1) actually support the crafty businesses – instead of pinning as DIY, I’m going to make a “NEED to buy” board (and since it would be more likely that I would actually buy it than make it, well it just makes more sense)
2) If the original link is missing, then add it.
3) Let the individual know I pinned their project.
You raise a great point, Liz – I suspect that many of us have more DIY ideas saved than we will ever have time, realistically, to make. That’s a nice distinction you suggest – what are the ideas I actually will get around to, and what ideas should I just go ahead and support someone else by buying?
What an interesting discussion! I am a crafty blogger and I frequently post tutorials to my site. Obviously I know people will be using those tutorials to make their own, though if they decide to blog about them,, I require that they link back to me. It’s good etiquette. And I always link back to a post if I got specific inspiration from them.
In terms of watermarking, I watermark every single picture. It’s easy to add text when you edit the photos (I use Picnik). If you are blogging in Windows Live Writer (which I love) it actually has a watermarking feature when you add a photo.
I do have to agree with what’s been said: once you put something on the internet, it’s out there. That’s the beauty and failure of the internet. I think as bloggers/sellers/etc. we need to accept this.
I think that we’re returning to an era of DIY. As such, I think that a lot of people see items they like and immediately start thinking about how they can reproduce it for themselves…and cheaper. For example, I am a HUGE fan of Anthropologie, but cannot afford the exorbitant prices they ask for their clothing and jewelry ($200 for a skirt? Seriously?) Now, I sew and knit, and I know how costly items can get after buying supplies and putting the man hours in to create an object. However, I think that there is a difference between fair price and over priced. $200 for a skirt is over priced (hence, no shopping at Anthropologie). I’ve also experienced this whilst perusing Etsy. For example: today I ran across a simple cowl neck long sleeve shirt. No embellishments, simple lines, appeared to be made out of four pieces and organic bamboo knit fabric. Price? $98. To me, this is not fair pricing, this is over pricing. ESPECIALLY on an item I can not only make, but probably draft my own pattern for. I’m MORE THAN WILLING to support my local artisans, however, I think if you’re not realistic in your pricing, then people will find a way to reproduce a product they want at a less of a cost to them. So yes, I agree that there will always be DIYers and buyers, and I also agree that once you put something out there–on the internet especially–you relinquish a little bit of control over the reproduction of you item, including–and specifically free–tutorials on how to DIY that item. I think it’s a whole other kettle of (stinky) fish, however, when someone reproduces an item and then sells it. For those people, I think there is a special place in Heck.
So I actually have both a craft blog with tutorials, a pretty active Etsy shop AND I’m a somewhat active user of Pinterest (I used to be much more active but now my full time job plus Etsy is taking all my time!)
And as an Etsy seller I just wanted to pipe up for a second with a few thoughts. First, I love when I see my lights being pinned on Pinterest, whether they came from my blog or my shop, I get excited about the idea that more people are seeing my projects.
Second, and I’m trying to say this in a way that won’t get anyone mad at me, but I’m not really sure what is so different about someone seeing an image on Pinterest as opposed to in your Etsy shop. When I see an image of something, whether its through Pinterest or through Etsy or through a random blog, I always look at it with the eye of “Could I make that?” Once an image of your product is out there in the world, anyone could try to make their own. Is seeing the photo through a ‘shop’ setting really going to deter a Maker-personality from trying to make their own? And true, if a Buyer sees your product on Pinterest without the proper ping back they might not know it is for sale, but if its really the perfect item they’ve always needed, isn’t it likely they’ve already searched for it on Etsy and found your product? And if it is just something fun that caught their eye, maybe they’ll see it pinned again somewhere else and this time it will include a ping back. Or maybe they’ll try to track it down by googling key words. Either way if someone really wanted to buy your product, can’t we trust them to try and find it themselves?
Basically, when I make a light to sell in my Etsy store, I’m not super secretive about my process because honestly if someone wants to make their own, they are going to make their own no matter what, even if they can’t copy your process exactly. And if someone wants to buy it, it probably doesn’t matter how it is made, they just care about the final product.
Honestly, isn’t all publicity somewhat good publicity? I choose to view Pinterest that way, because hey, every single image of my lights that are out there are another chance for someone to see them and think wow, that’s cool, and come purchase one from my shop.
Hopefully no one finds offense, since these are just my opinions, but I’d say get mad at sloppy pinners who don’t give your Etsy shop credit, but don’t get mad at all pinners because one of them could end up getting you your next sale.
Allison
Totally agree Allison. It never occurred to me that there was that kind of problem with Pinterest, first time I hear that.
I took a rather quick look once at Pinterest and quite truthfully, I did not find it interesting enough to hang around. Reading this post and the goings on with this ‘re-pinning’ have made me glad and satisfied that, once again, my instinct to leave it alone was a good and valid decision. Thank you for the post. It cleared up a lot for me.
Interesting thoughts (both in the post and the comments. Personally, I’d be more worried about Tumbler. I’m an avid Pinterest user and I always try to be fair by attributing work to the creator. My biggest problem is that others (lots of others) pin straight from Tumbler where nothing seems to be attributed to anyone. If I can’t find the origin using Google’s image search, I refuse to pin it. I really wish more people would be respectiful of other people’s hard work and livelihoods.
I saw a comment on another blog that mentioned Tumblr had recently added some new engines to force better attribution, and I hope that’s the case. I tend to avoid Tumblr for the same reason you do – it’s so disheartening to see a beautiful image shared and re-shared with nary a clue who created it in the first place.
[...] number 1: If you are going to pin something on pinterest, please for the love of…!!!, pin it from the original source and start giving bloggers the credit they deserve and are [...]
[...] reading: Pinterest, Inspiration, Copying and the Whole Ethics Thing Four Tips for Happy Pinning on Pinterest Share this:tweetMoreDiggEmailLike this:LikeBe the first to [...]
When my circle of non crafting friends started frequenting Pinterest they were in heaven, while I was silently stewing to myself over ethics. As a blogger, crafter and interior designer I’ve had many mixed feelings about what pinterest means to the ownership of images. While I do feel that the site tries, it
needs a lot of work to truly be fair to the creator and owner of online pictures.
1. I think that the blog author should be notified by Pinterest when one of their pictures is used.
2. The owner should be able to delete their own picture without contacting Pinterest directly (which I have done for a picture that I wanted removed and Pinterest took care of it immediately).
3. The text box should automatically give credit to the site which it came from
4. Only direct images should be pin-able.
Many non crafters, artists, photographers & bloggers see Pinterest as a candy shop and thats a good thing, ideas are being shared and enjoyed, they feel like they are creating too even though they are just sitting at the computer. We all have a good time there and Im glad its been created. But since elementary school we were taught that plagiarism is not allowed and how to properly give credit in research papers. Even though its digital, the same respect is due for a photo (which is owned too), but i guess people are forgetting that. So before you pin an image think about how you would feel if it were your hard work or bright idea and show the person that shared it with you the respect they deserve and you would want too.
BTW Im also sick of seeing “cute idea” , come on people you can come up with better descriptions than that!!
Thanks for posting this, your thoughts are true and clear and im going to share it with many people.
Thank you for YOUR thoughts, Nikki! I like your Pinterest wish list. I can’t imagine it would be so difficult for Pinterest to at least identify by algorhythm when an image alone or a website homepage is being pinned, and pop out a warning message encouraging better pinning.
I’ve grown discouraged with the site in this holiday season. I kept seeing pretty things I’d like to repin, but easily 8 times out of 10, I’d click the pin to check its source, and find all kinds of bad attribution. It’s not worth my time to chase down an idea so I can pin it properly. I’ve taken to pinning things I find online here and there, but I don’t put much energy into looking at things on Pinterest anymore. Which is sad.
This is so helpful, especially since I am new to this whole blogging world as well as pinterest. I truely just want tohave fun with my blog at the same tiem I want to be respectful and give others the credit that I would hope to receive if someone reposted or pinned something of mine. I am still learning all of this, I have probobly made some mistakes,but everyday I learn a little more. As pinterest is around longer and we make our concerns known perhaps some changes will be made that keep original sources intact when photos are repinned. Until then I will do my best to find original sources! Thanks for the post…this was so, so helpful!
[...] I got on (you can follow me there if you like, @likesoatmeal) I read Dianne of Craftypod’s post about Pinterest and copyright/credit-giving. In the back of my mind it sits as I click through uncredited after uncredited photo. I decided I [...]
[...] interesting reading on the subject: – Pinterest, Inspiration, Copying and the Whole Ethics Thing on Craftypod – Prying Control from Your Cold, Cramped Hands by Kim Werker Pin It [...]
[...] came across a post a few months ago about Pinterest, mentioning the two most prevalent problems; i) people pinning images and not linking back to the [...]
First, this assumes that everyone on Pinterest is a crafter or DIY person and I assure you not everyone is who uses Pinterest. I am not, I am a DIFM (do it for me) and there’s plenty of us out there. I love Pinterest and have discovered many blogs (and not just craft blogs) I now follow by subscription and more subscribers and hits to a blog = more money for the blogger. I have also discovered many Etsy shops this way and have purchased things from them instead of big box or chain stores. I do agree that the key is pinning properly directly from the source. I always try to click back to the source before re-pinning because that is the point for me … I want to have a bookmark that takes me directly back to the source post. I think bloggers and Etsy shops should add a watermark to their pictures … I never understand why people don’t do that when they take pictures of their own work and post them. There was a story awhile back of a blogger who had posted a family portrait on her site and she had friends traveling in another country who saw their family picture being used as a huge advertisement on the side of a store. I have also seen pictures from blogs I follow being misrepresented as someone else’s work. There was a before and after picture of someone’s kitchen being used by a contractor from another state and it was being represented as the contractor’s work. Now that is shameful! There is data mining where pictures are gathered and sold to other sites as stock photos. That is why I say watermark your pics! Back to Pinterest. I love it because it’s a visual representation of bookmarks I would already have (you should see my computer bookmark list, it’s insane) and I do “pin” things so I can go back and buy things. But I also pin recipes and inspiration photos for things like paint colors and decor/styling and fashion just like I would rip out of a magazine or create a traditional computer bookmark for.
Julie – actually, more hits or subscribers does not automatically equal “more money for the blogger.” I’ve written about that assumption here: http://www.craftypod.com/2012/02/16/blog-traffic-what-does-it-really-get-you/
I agree that not everyone on Pinterest is a crafter; since I am a crafter, I’m really only qualified to write from a crafter’s perspective. I don’t believe I ever said in this post that every Pinterest user crafts.
I’m so glad to hear that you use such careful methods when pinning – I wish all Pinterest users did what you do.
I read the article you linked to, thanks! When I said “more money” I didn’t necessarily mean by direct sales of wares. There are blogs that don’t sell anything but make money through advertising and affiliate links and I assume you’ll get more advertising money/advertisers the more visitors your site has. I also know that companies research sites and hits and offer opportunities to bloggers (two I follow who don’t sell a thing have gotten book deals, or do paid writing on other sites, for example).
You definitely didn’t say every Pinterest user crafts, but that is the direction of this post and other posts like this … that a pin is going to be copied or DIY’d. My point was simply to say that seeing someone else’s pin has led me to discover something I may not have and I have become a paying customer because of that. Regardless, your post provides for interesting discussion and I do agree that credit should be given where credit is due!
I’m new to Pinterest and perhaps a bit late to this discussion. As a dealer of used/rare books, hard-to-find back-issue magazines, collector’s comics, and similar publications, I often research my items online. I found this Etsy debate interesting and I believe I have a simple solution.
Etsy users and other makers can place branding on their product images. An easy to read URL would be easy to place along an edge without obscuring the product. Now the source info is built in to the image no matter where it goes. Just be sure to only upload the branded version of the product image.
I’m not an Etsy user. Some sites may have rules about including branding in such images. But, if I were the basement maker of “Bonnett’s Burlap & Buckskin Bow-Ties”, I wouldn’t use a site that wouldn’t let me protect my product images.
I skimmed the other comments, trying not to re-hash something that may have already been settled.
I see that proper attribution is a must, and pre-Pinterest images on Etsy may be difficult or impossible to update with branding. Etsy sellers, lesson learned, proceed with caution, and don’t forget to use your turn signals. ;-)
Kevin Bonnett
I’m definitely a fan of watermarking blog and online shop images in the age of Pinterest, Kevin. There’s a part of me that gets irritated with having to take this extra step to protect against misuse created by a poorly-designed platform, but then again, protection is protection. You’re right – if we want to put our stuff out there, we should be prepared to keep it tied to our brand as much as possible.
[...] “I can make that myself!”. There has been some interesting discussion about just this in relation to pinterest, and the pinning of things for sale at say, etsy, with just that tagline – I can make [...]
I’ve posted on Pinterest several items I created. I know it sounds corny, but I am flattered when someone repins it, whether they gave credit to me or not. I feel it means that someone appreciates my work. I agree with the notion that we all get inspired by beautiful things and often tweak them to make them our own creation. I remember being in a craft fair years ago and how awful I felt when I realized someone had shoplifted from my booth. I guess in a way, I should feel just as bad if I found out someone stole my design and used it, but somehow that does not bother me. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, though, so that I can be more respectful to other creatives who do not share my view.